Hey Jesse! How’s everything going?I am good! I am freaking out. I’m talking to the Mike Bloom!(Laughs.) Well I’m talking to the Jesse Lopez! Believe me, I’m the one who’s truly fanning out right now. But really, how are you doing right now? It was clear how visceral and gutted you felt to be eliminated in the moment. Did watching it again bring those feelings up?I mean, I gotta be honest. Rewatching the season, I knew the outcome. I knew where we were headed in the season. So it was sort of bittersweet throughout the season. I knew I was playing a good game out there. Or you think you’re playing a good game out there, really. You never know for sure. And then to watch it back and to really see, “Oh my god, I was playing this really great game.” And to have it like confirmed back to you, it’s this amazing thing. But then at the same time, I know where it’s going. I know what it’s leading to. And so the whole sort of experience has been this bittersweet experience just leading up to this moment. I watched it with my wife, and my wife started crying. And so it’s been emotional. It’s been emotional. But I wouldn’t trade this for anything. This was an amazing experience overall.Now after you have this moment, you have to turn around and vote for a winner the very next day. What led to you voting for Gabler?He smoked me on that fire! (Laughs.) Set a record, man. I don’t think that I was locked in for anybody when I walked out of that game. I spent that entire game, you know, focused on my path to the end. And so once I’m out, like, I’m like, “Oh my god, I have to figure out who I’m gonna vote for to win this game,” which was never the plan. It’s never the plan. And so going into Tribal, I’m pretty open minded. I’m hearing everybody out. I think I went in with a checklist. (Laughs.) I had a checklist for who and what I wanted to see. And I think Gabler–surprisingly, I will be honest with you–checked the boxes for me. And so that’s why I ended up writing his name down.What was on that checklist for you?So I really boiled it down to like two or three boxes. We’re gonna go through a full checklist. (Laughs.) I wanted to see somebody who had persuaded other people. I said the jury, “I study political science. Persuasion is a big part of that big part of politics. And so I want to know who have you persuaded in this game? What have you done to persuade people?” And Gabler threw out the Elie vote. He claimed credit for that, and Gabler really did steer the ship on that vote. And that was a big thing for me. I think there another component to it was really the Cody vote out as well. Owen and Cass both knew that I had Cody’s idol in my bag. Gabler did not know that. And I went up to Gabler, and I said, “Look, Gabler. If Cody gets any further, he’s going to win this game. We have to take a shot at Cody, regardless if he has an idol or not”. And that’s all Gabler needed to hear. He was just like, “Yu’re right. I didn’t come here to get second, third, fourth. I gotta take the shot now and I’m gonna do it. Whether it means that Cody plays his idol and I potentially go out.” And showing that heart and that “go big or go home” mentality, that was something that I tried to do in the game and I respected it.One of your last-ditch moves in the game was to tell Cassidy to give up immunity and put herself into the firemaking challenge. And the next day, when she defends her choice to not, it’s clear you disapproved of it. Did you truly believe she should have done that?I don’t know whether she should or shouldn’t have done it, because you never know how fire is gonna go. But I do know that, from my perspective, if she would have taken me in fire and she would have beaten me, I feel like she would have swept the jury and she would have won the game. I think at that point in the game, it was like whoever takes me out is probably going to be the person that wins the game.Well we have to talk about the move that put you in that position in the first place: The Cody blindside. My read on the situation is that you felt you couldn’t beat Cody in the end, and had to take him out before he could use his idol or possibly make fire. Is that valid, and when and how did you decide that you needed to turn on your closest ally?So the entire game, Cody has been telling me how much he was committed to go to the end with me. And you never truly 100% believe anybody in Survivor. You would never do that. So I was kind of on the fence about whether he was being honest or not. But for me, personally, I was always mulling over the idea of, if me and Cody sat in the end together, Cody is this person who’s around camp, and he’s more sociable. He’s more extroverted than me. I can make these bonds with people one on one. But he’s gonna get you to laugh more than I am. And a lot of times, that’s what matters.So I felt threatened by Cody. We made all the same moves. He won immunity. Who knows if he would have won more immunities if I kept him in the game? And then I could see him playing a more well-rounded game. So I wanted to just make sure that my game plan was, if I get to the end, I don’t want any questions asked. I want to play as hard as I possibly can. I want final Tribal to be as short as possible. (Laughs.) And having Cody sitting next to me would have hindered that a bit.That being said, do you have any regrets in hindsight of taking him out, considerably it led to you going out two votes later?No, I think that was a risk that I had to take. If Cody would have pulled off that Karla move, I think he would have been able to claim credit for that. Who knows what would have happened at five and four? He might have won immunity and done something else. And as much as he says he would have taken me to the end, if he would have won the Final Four Immunity Challenge, it probably would have been pretty tempting for him to throw me in a fire. So I don’t have any regrets. I played the game I played. I tried to go big or go home. And that’s what I did.It really did seem like nearly episode the cycle was that you would find yourself in the middle, get presented with a plan, then change and successfully execute another plan to take out who you want. Was there anything particular you were implementing to get yourself as the decision-maker of nearly every vote this season?I don’t know. (Laughs.) Honestly, at some point in that game, I just remember feeling like, “How is this happening? How am I in the middle on every single day? How am I able to flip this?” I honestly think looking back, I underestimate myself. I have grappled with impostor syndrome, grappled with self-doubt. And I think I am more sociable than I give myself credit for. I have these individual conversations with people. And I think those are meaningful. I think going into Survivor, my conception of what a social butterfly is, is somebody who’s really loud and talks to everybody openly. But I think there’s different kinds of being social. And I think my individual relationships with people in my individual, one on one conversations with people, really is what led me to be in the middle on so many votes and have all the information. There wasn’t ever a moment, honestly, where I felt blindsided.I’ve posted about this before. But Jesse, you were cutthroat, man!(Laughs.) Oh, I know. I saw!It’s so interesting because you talk about having these individual relationships and being so friendly. But then you were also able to pull off things like getting Jeanine’s idol from Dwight and voting them both off. And the Cody move is one that some are calling one of the most devastating blindsides in the show’s history. You’ve talked about wanting to play as an example for your family, as well as kids in juvenile hall to show what they can do. Did you ever have any conflict with yourself where you struggled making these cutthroat moves while also having to consider how it may come across to people outside the game?I mean, I think it’s tough. It is rough. It is hard. But Survivor is real. You have these real relationships with people. But at the end of the day, like it is a game. And I wanted to go out there and set an example for my kids, set an example for kids who are sitting in juvenile hall. But if you go out there and you give it your all, you can make it like you can make things happen. And in Survivor, giving it your all, is sometimes being cutthroat. And it doesn’t feel good. But I think that because of my background, because of where I came from in life, I am able to separate emotions and the game a little bit.That being said, when you got back to Ponderosa and you came face-to-face with some of those people you blindsided, what was the temperature of the room?I’ll be honest, I was a little bit scared going back to Ponderosa. But less than I thought I would be because like, as you saw, they gave me this sort of standing ovation. They clap for me at the end. And so I knew that there was some level of sort of respect for the game and the moves that I made. And so when I got back to Ponderosa, Karla comes up. She hugs me; she’s crying. And then the next person I see is Cody. And I just walk up to him and put my hand out. And it was kind of like the moment on TV where it felt like time stood still. But he totally understood. And he told me, as soon as I pulled out Jeanine’s idol, he’s like, “Ah, it all made sense.” I had to do what I had to do.As you mentioned before, you do undergo imposter syndrome and have a lot of humility for yourself. But you have truly had a surge in popularity, with fans to Survivor alumni to Jeff Probst himself commending you for the move you made on Cody. And I saw firsthand on social media how absolutely devasted people were by your defeat in firemaking. As someone who is such a big fan, how does it feel to have people look at your game in such a glowing way?Honestly, this last week has been completely surreal since the Cody vote out. Seeing Jeff comment on my move and talk about how it’s this “Hall of Fame” move is crazy. And it’s even crazier because, I don’t know if I’m supposed to say this, but I was supposed to be on the original season 41 before COVID. My bags were packed and I was ready to go to Fiji, and then COVID shut it down. And when they finally restarted talks about the show a little bit, my mom passed away in between that time. And I wasn’t in the right headspace. So this has been a long time coming. And I’ve been so committed to this idea and wanting to do this and dreaming about this. So for me to actually get out there and make the most of it, and have all these amazing things happen. And then have my name like talked about as potentially one of these historic moves. It’s just completely surreal. It’s amazing. It’s incredible.Next, check out our interview with Survivor 43 third-place finisher Owen Knight.
